William S. Lerner, who spoke at last year’s Automotive Innovation Day: Sequel 2024, is the CTO and a Risk Mitigation Consultant specializing in safety issues across the transportation sector, including FCEV, hydrogen fueling stations, BEV, EV charging systems, fuel delivery, and infrastructure. He is also an independent inventor and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce (F.R.S.A.) in the UK. Lerner holds 19 U.S. patents and is actively expanding his portfolio with additional applications related to transportation and public safety.  

William S. Lerner, CTO of Intermodal Renewables

Cars have changed, and to maintain safety, we must adapt accordingly. As new and diverse electric powertrain models - such as BEVs, plug-in hybrid, full hybrid, mild hybrid, and FCEV - continue to enter the market, the ways in which we respond to and suppress vehicle fires must also evolve. It is essential to learn, understand, and adapt to these changes in order to manage fire incidents effectively. In a conversation with William S. Lerner, an American risk mitigation consultant and inventor, we discussed updates to his patent on “Mitigating EV Incident Risks Through Identification”. The conversation revealed not only his approach to risk mitigation but also important considerations from a vehicle design perspective. This interview explores his insights.

by Sang Min Han_han@autoelectronics.co.kr

한글로보기




Welcome back, William. I just saw your latest patent(US 12,227,103 B1), your 19th, which is for a Visual indicator to identify a vehicle type, make, model and  it’s status.  First responders need  to know exactly what they are dealing with to handle any events. Your visual indicators can blink in a series of colors to let the first responders, and the public know, for example, an electric vehicle is in a failure mode. The Illuminated indictors can be at the sharks fin or any other location on the vehicle. The vehicle can also send a wireless signal to your smartphone, smartwatch and have acoustical elements on the vehicle which will be useful if you can’t see the vehicle if it is blocked by a truck for example or around  a corner. It also applies to e-mobility, trucks, trains, and all other ‘’vehicles” Is my summary right correct? 
William         Absolutely! You will get an A+.  The visual  indictor is about information. Information that the  first responder, garage, repair facility, dealership and owner’s need. It is not saying any one type of propulsion is more dangerous than another, or singling out any specific battery type or models. Many times the issues these types of vehicles have, concerning fires, off gassing or other malfunctions have absolutely nothing to do with the manufacturer or the battery maker. Why? Batteries are sensitive, and can be damaged if an owner, or driver hits a curb by mistake. Improper charging, or over charging can also cause issues. We need to stop putting all the blame on the maker or battery manufacturer. It is not that simple. Accidents happen all the time to gasoline vehicles, but it can be a chain of devastation if the same accident involves an EV or plug-in-hybrid. 

EVs do not function like gasoline vehicles, which is what the public, first responders and owners are used to.  Traditional gasoline vehicles typically had one battery, an aluminum fuel tank, and the fire matched the first responder’s gear, so any vehicle fire could be handled. This is no longer true, from any perspective. The EVs can burn at 4,000F to 5,000F and their flames typically come out from under the driver’s door. The latest trend is electric door handles, which retract. That makes a rescue even more challenging. Why? First responders gear only lasts to 1,550 F and their clear face piece to 350 F. This is the first time in automotive history that the fire of the vehicle does not  match the gear they have to protect themselves. This presents grave dangers for the first responders, and for the passengers. How does a first responder get a passenger out of a vehicle, when they can’t get into it? They lose their vision at 350 F because their face shield will melt, bubble and allow the toxic emissions in, rendering their breathing apparatus useless. 


Do mild hybrids and plug-in-hybrids present the same challenges? 
William        Excellent question. No, they do not present the same challenges, they present even more complex challenges. How? A pure EV has one propulsion type, being a large battery which may take the form of a solid battery pack, an open architecture type, like the Lucid’s battery below the passenger compartments floor, or be designed to drop the entire contents of the battery, which may be 8,000 individual cells. One maker did this to “assist” first responders by putting an aluminum battery bottom in the vehicle, so when the individual cells inside the pack  reached  temperatures above 1,221 F,  the cells would drop out so it might be easier to suppress the event. Unfortunately, That created more problems. The cells rolled, on fire, shot out 50’ to the sides of the vehicle, And, to complicate things even further, the vehicles with the solid battery pack have the same badging as the ones with the aluminum bottom battery packs. They simply used this pack in some models, and we found that out during the first time it happened. Everyone was completely astounded and confused. 

Plug-in hybrids have EV like batteries, but smaller. They get plugged into to be charged, like an EV. However, they also have a gasoline engine, and a gasoline tank. It is a combination of propulsion that actually presents a greater challenge. Why? Gas tanks are made of HDPE which melts at roughly 348 F. So, if the plug-in-hybrids battery ignites, it can melt the HDPE gasoline tank, emptying the contents to the ground. The battery’s heat and flames can then set the gasoline on fire. The gasoline can spill out and spread. So, effectively it is two different vehicle fires combined into one vehicle. 

Mild hybrids have gasoline engines, full size gas tanks made of HDPE, and a battery for additional power.  The mild hybrid battery can boost horsepower by 50 or so, hence the popularity. These are actually the most complex, and challenging of all. Why? One very popular SUV and it’s variants, that are sold globally has a gasoline engine, an AGM battery, an auxiliary lithium ion battery, a full size gasoline tank and a mild hybrid battery. The competitor of this popular model has the same components, but they are not all in the same locations. There are no standards or labeling about what and where the batteries are or what they are. So, this model puts it’s 48 Volt, 22 Kilowatt hour battery under the hood (similar specs to an e-bike battery), next to the heat producing six cylinder twin-turbocharged gasoline engine. It’s competitor, puts their battery by the rear bumper. Why does this matter? If a first responder or repair facility looks at the badging, they will not see anything that says there is a mild hybrid battery under the hood, and if it is a gasoline engine fire, they will have no idea that there is a lithium-ion battery located next to the engine below an unmarked plastic cover. The fire may start with the gasoline engine, not the battery, but then the fire from the gasoline engine, can spread to the mild hybrid battery, or the converse. The two types of propulsion under the hood, create two types of events, which need to be addressed differently. Even post “event” a typical gasoline engine fire, is deemed fully suppressed, however with any lithium-ion battery involvement, be it a pure EV or mild hybrid, the first suppression is just that. We now are seeing any type or size of lithium-ion battery pack re-ignite up to 60 days later, and may do so multiple times.  


Very interesting, because we tend to only think about gasoline and battery vehicles having rescue differences. 
William        That is true. We have not had enough data to fully understand all the types of fires and events, and luckily we have not seen significant injuries. However, as we learned at Incheon and the Luton Airport parking garage fire, all vehicles are problematic when mixed together in an event. Even the modern gasoline vehicles have over four hundred pounds of plastics and lithium-ion auxiliary batteries. The HDPE gas tanks melt at 348 F not the 1,221 F from decades ago. If you mix all the types together in a garage, it becomes a much larger event due to how modern vehicles are built. And, as we get more data from the fire service, we understand how we need to protect ourselves and the public. We recently saw two EVs go from vapor to full fire in 4 and 11 seconds. We also have data that e-mobility batteries on fire have shot 20 meters (65’ 7”) away from the burning e-bike. That means the safety radius is 70 feet from any burning e-bike. And, if the e-bike is on a subway car or in an elevator, it can ricochet. It requires a lot of force to send a battery sixty five feet from the bike. 






When we last interviewed you, the patent was the same but had the QR code a first responder could scan for all the information, so what is new? 
William        The first patent had the QR code and could include the illuminated indicator from behind or anywhere in the area of the vehicle. Ideally the QR code would not even be seen above the rear view mirror where the sun dots are, or in the B-Post. However, I wanted to make it as simple and invisible as possible. Using an LED that costs pennies, is tiny and the same as a drone anti-collision light , which has a visibility of three statuate miles, it became a safety feature that presents no visual changes to the vehicle, and is only there if you need it.. Much like an airbag. It is there if there is an accident, but having them does not mean you will. I aimed for a seamless, elegant integration of my work.